No Crime. No Trial. No Reason: The Precedent Is Set for Gun Confiscations

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m4 assault rifle

After the San Bernardino shooting, the most pressing issue for progressives was closing the gun “loophole” that allows suspected terrorists to buy firearms. Specifically, they seem to think that people who have been flagged by the government, and placed on the no fly list, should also be prevented from buying a gun. At first glance it makes sense. After all, why should suspected terrorists ever be allowed to buy a weapon?

However, it stops making sense the moment you take a look at what the no fly list is, and what it entails. It also completely ignores the idea that people should never be punished for crimes they haven’t committed.

This is a list that contains millions of names. We don’t even know the exact number. We don’t know the country of origin for all these people. We don’t know how they got there, or what conditions and procedures were used to put them on the list. And we have no idea how anyone can ever get off the list. Everything about the no fly list is a secret, and more importantly, there is nothing judicial about it. There is no trial, judges or juries, and there is certainly no defending yourself. That’s because you don’t necessarily need to commit a crime to be on the list.

And that’s why banning gun ownership for individuals on the no fly list should frighten gun owners. It creates a situation where you don’t have to do anything criminal to lose your rights. The government could determine any benign behavior to be a sign of terrorism, and promptly take your firearms. For all practical purposes, the Second Amendment would be dead.

However, it’s important to remember that the no fly list ban isn’t alone. California recently passed a law that, while appearing unrelated to the no fly list proposal, is actually operating with the same logic and intent.

A new California law scheduled to take effect Friday will allow the police to seize private, legally-owned weapons for up to three weeks without charges or allowing the citizen to contest the seizure.

AB1014 was passed last year in the wake of 2014’s Isla Vista shooting, where teenager Elliot Rodger went on a rampage near the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara, killing six people along with himself…

…Under the law, the factors a judge can consider in granting the restraining order include not only threats of violence, but also prior felony arrests (even without a conviction), evidence of alcohol abuse, and even the simple act of recently purchasing a gun or ammunition.

Once granted, police can use the restraining order to confiscate all of a person’s guns and ammunition, and the person is also barred from buying or possessing guns and ammo for the duration of the order. A full court hearing must then be heard within three weeks. At that hearing, a judge will be able to extend the restraining order for an entire year.

For now, this law won’t amount to anything for most gun owners. But it does set a dangerous new precedent. They’ve finally established the idea that it is okay to confiscate a weapon from someone who has never been convicted of a crime. It’s now perfectly okay in California, to violate someone’s fundamental rights based on nothing but vague suspicions and accusations.

But this probably won’t end with California. What we’re really seeing here is a two-pronged attack against the Second Amendment. Laws like this are an attempt to violate our rights at the state level, while the no fly list proposals will be used to justify warrantless confiscations at the federal level. After failing to restrict gun ownership time and time again, the gun grabbers have found a new underhanded path for violating the Second Amendment.

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Contributed by Joshua Krause of The Daily Sheeple.

Joshua Krause is a reporter, writer and researcher at The Daily Sheeple. He was born and raised in the Bay Area and is a freelance writer and author. You can follow Joshua’s reports at Facebook or on his personal Twitter. Joshua’s website is Strange Danger .

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  • rich

    A law like that can only lead to total domination by Obama. Once he has our guns there is no way to stop his scheme for takeover. Does he have the manpower to accomplish gun confiscation? I not only believe he has the manpower but I also believe he has the plan ready to go and will use that plan this spring. Will Congress stop him? He already owns most of them!

    • mirageseekr

      I believe he may try, I think the UN may have met their match in the heavily armed US population though once the SHTF. I also have no doubt that the majority of the US military will turn against such orders and fight on our side as well. The goal before this happens is to wake people up to who the real enemy is and not let these false flags get anymore traction. If a full on revolution comes in spring so be it, its past time Americans started to remember their rights and wake up from this oppressive system that the banksters and elite have created. The patriots that kill the likes of Bill Gates, Rockefeller, Obama, McCain, Bush, Cheney, etc… will be remembered in the true history books as hero’s. “The tree of liberty must refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” – Thomas Jefferson

      • ‘…the majority of the US military…will fight on our side…
        The US military may fight against the current government, but have no doubt, they will be fighting for the State. Thus it will be as Nock predicted: ‘Even a successful revolution would accomplish nothing. The people would be as thoroughly indoctrinated with Statism after the revolution as they were before, and therefore the revolution would be no revolution, but a ‘coup d’état’ by which the citizen would gain nothing but a mere change of oppressors.’

        • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

          Interesting point. Do you have a link so we could read some of this man’s writings?

          • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

            Thank you. Interesting intro to his book. We have probably run into a lot of his ideals on this and other websites.

          • Wish I could buy that without “them” knowing about it.

          • I was checking torrents sites and nobody was seeding… thanks, man! Much appreciated(I realize that you know a good deal about this stuff so I may ask for more resources in the future if you don’t mind)!

          • Just trying to get the message out.

          • I know, you do a good job too!

          • Thanks!

          • Fred Bastiat

            Better than the Jock Coats read version. Jock Coats reads it like it has no commas, periods, or paragraphs.

          • Carolyn Lee

            “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”
            Big Brother watches your every keystroke, records your auto license
            plate and your face and knows your identity, so they know everything you
            buy just about anywhere, or that you borrow from the public library, or that you yourself write.
            It’s good for them to know how many of us there are, and it’s good for us to support each other by buying each other’s books, because, when they see we are so many respectable citizens, they slow down their take-over activities, like they keep backing off from the legally armed Western groups who gather as needed to protect their rights.
            Also, If we all used our real names when we wrote comments like this, the world would know
            who and how many of us can still inform ourselves, and think rationally,
            and plan for action. Using a pseudonym only hides your identity from
            the innocent.
            Imagine if the trolls were the only ones who wouldn’t sign their real names!

          • You make great points but in my case I need to stay out of jail, lol. They don’t get my keystrokes, that’s for sure(my freedom is proof of that), you can lock them right out of your life too with this little tool right here: gpg4usb.org. I am routed through 3 different countries before I reach this web page so yeah, you CAN find me but no, I am NOT worth the effort. There are very few traces of me online but that doesn’t mean they don’t still have a dossier. I think online obfuscation is a wise/necessary move but that is only my humble opinion. I want to see a bitcoin operated ebook website, that would be cool.

          • Carolyn Lee

            Your view has merits, but I operate on the principle that there’s no computer system that can’t be hacked. Before I do anything, I ask myself, what if they are watching? Since they always could be watching, I do as I see fit. I am lucky that I don’t have to worry about jail so far; I am pretty low key and conservative in how I live. I won’t use bitcoin because it’s computer-based, just like bricks-and-mortar banks. At least with the latter, I get something I can carry in my wallet to prove I do (or did) have ‘money’.

          • Yes, each have their advantages/disadvantages for sure. My opinion is if you don’t learn bitcoin you will be screwed/forced relying on NWO currency after you trade all of our PM’s away, I will be using ammo as money as well though. Every system can be hacked but if you can hack yourself it makes it easier to protect yourself. There are secure systems out there and Open BSD is one of them but is too technical for the average user. I learned this stuff so I can stay free. Want to message/email, use gpg4usb, wnat to talk on the phone privately use a decibit phone want to text privately use a gotenna want to encrypt all of our stuff with plausible deniability built into it, use truecrypt 7.1a. If you want to see exactly what is leaving our machine use wireshark. You can still be safe while going online it just takes lots of studying/practice.

          • Carolyn Lee

            I hope you are right about these things working and that you stay safe.

            I suspect that any independent bank that gets as large as Bitcoin gets taken over by the PTSB, if it wasn’t their plot to begin with. It gives us alternative folks, who don’t use their mainstream-type banks, an independent-looking financial-exchange alternative. If it catches on and we flock to it; they will be getting our money out from under our mattresses and into their hands. And it did, and they have.

            Am I cynical, or just realistic? Personal observation and experience, plus lots of reading, over very many years tells me what tricks and tools are used and that there is no limit to how much harm the PTSB will cheerfully do to others.

          • Yes, I agree completely! BUT, bitcoin isn’t a bank, bitcoin isn’t really anything but a math equation with 21 million answers, they are just using it as a way to transfer value/wealth to one another without a scumbag bank getting in between the two parties that wish to transact. With bitcoin though, you can hide it all from “them” and there is no way from then to find it once anonymized… they know this so it is only a matter of time until they ban it. You have to buy from an exchange which is tied to your bank so yeah, they know you bought some when you do. Another way to do it is to use localbitcoins and buy some off of somebody for cash. Once it is in your possession you can tumble it which anonymizes your money, then you put that into a wallet and now you have money, just like the hidden cash in your mattress only when they illegally raid your home there will be nothing to steal. Check out electrum.org, that is a wallet that you only have to remember a seed(password) to recover and a seed is a group of words that don’t mean anything and are not related to each other. All you need is the seed to get to your funds and what that means is that if you can remember your seed you can walk across international borders with empty pockets but still have all of your money… VERY powerful concept for the freedom-minded individual and I would highly recommend becoming familiar with it. I am very experienced in this area, I’ve been doing it for years but thank you for your concern for my safety, it isn’t something I want to do though, it is something I HAVE to do for someone I love who is very sick so no matter what happens I will have no regrets.

            Freedom, as you know, isn’t free, you have to TAKE it, it is not given to you and I take my freedom every single day and I sure wish more would do the same but they don’t…. they’re scared of getting into trouble… I refuse to live my life like that for better or worse.

            Bitcoin is digital money, which they love, BUT it can be anonymized, which they HATE and thus bitcoin is “their” enemy… contrary to what many believe.

          • defender

            large bookstore, pay cash.

          • Carolyn Lee

            sorry, comment posted twice

        • Carolyn Lee

          So what is your point — don’t fight back because it is futile? A patriot will defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights, his own family and his neighbor’s. If we have to fight our state or local govt after we defeat the national and international govts, so be it. But maybe we can reform them, or secede from them; who knows at this point? Indoctrinated people, like those in the military, can wake up, like me and many, many military personnel have. You sound like a tool of the oppressors.

          • berrybestfarm

            I never thought this day would come. The super majority of my neighbors are too scared and too weak to rebuild anything. How do we work around this monstrous pile of humanity that is in the way?
            Dennis Patterson–Deer Park, WA

          • I worry about the same.

        • John C Carleton

          When there is a revolution, it is because it benefits the men behind he curtain, not the people. think of someone who owns fighting dogs. Sometimes he sets two of them fighting just because he is sadistic and bored.

        • ANARCHY

          no more rulers.

        • Kevnbrute

          Wrong! We want our land back and will fight! Freedom abounds on the other side of revolution, molan labe!

        • CHANGE the very kind of money in use,FROM FIAT to HONEST Money.

          FROM paper and ink perpetual debtor notes to Intrinsic Value Added Monetary Units.

          FROM Usury being legal to Usury being ILLEGAL.

          REJECT their DEBT, and CANCEL ALL Interest, forever.

          THINK outside the FEMA Coffin Boxes~!!!.

          Somehow, I do not believe that any US Military EVER Signed up to defend their Luciferian Establishment.

          Most WILL turn AGAINST the Lords of Treason: Public SERVANTS are the most obvious Anti-Government types.

          We the people SELF Government LOVE our system of SELF governance.
          We the people SELF Government do NOT oppose ourselves, but THEY most certainly do.

          WHEN “money” can NO LONGER BE printed up out of thin air, the Revolution goes onto auto-pilot.

          THEY want NOT Revolution but a Civil War. Civil War is when the people fight among themselves. REVOLUTION takes place when those in power are driven OUT.

          Sure, the “precedent” of Tyranny has been around from time to time however, Fighting and Successfully Defeating and Resisting Tyranny also has a precedent. Remember 1776?

          FEAR is NOT our only and “final” option. HOW about we try OUTRAGE, instead?!!!

          HELLS BELLS~!!!

          http://www.IVAMU.com/
          !!!!***!!!!***!!!!***!!!!***!!!!***!!!!

        • Exactly!
          Unfortunately violent revolutions without a transformation in political consciousness beforehand, is merely a more (obviously) violent form of voting in a rival political party.
          Nothing substantive changes.
          One merely winds up with new slave masters.

          • ‘…a more (obviously) violent form of voting in a rival political party.’

            Brilliant way of wording it and absolutely true!

            “Only libertarian means can achieve libertarian ends. The revolution must therefore not aim at the seizure of power but its dissolution.”
            ~ M. Bookchin

          • Thanks!

            And thanks for the Bookchin quote. I wasn’t aware of it. So true!
            Otherwise one is merely change the cast of the same production, not staging a new play.

      • LiberalsRLost

        you put too much faith in the ussa military…the very ones that slapped round an old lady and bruised her up for having a …gulp!….38 to protect herself during katrina…..and they only confiscated weapons from the law abiding citizens that never got them back…….

        you really think a PFC with 3 kids is going to make a stand for the Constitution HA…..he will do whatever it takes to keep his pay check…….
        no sir this will be all out fugly and bloody………!

        • rich

          Your thought are what I fear the most, that the military gets all gung ho and stands by their man to the bitter end. He already has replaced about 200 generals who I’m sure is indoctrinating and many others to submit to Obama when and if the time comes. Another thing that bothers me a lot is if even though the citizens have millions of guns what kind of organization do we have. Plus many of the gun owners are seniors like myself and many others own several guns. A man can only fight with one gun at a time. And the last time I checked the citizen weaponry consists of rifles of all sorts. The government has loads of heavy weapons. That sound pretty one sided to me.

          • berrybestfarm

            Looks like its time for us to create a guerilla warfare resistance.
            Dennis Patterson–Deer Park, WA

          • oldjake

            Last time I looked the goat humpers have done a lot of damage with no resources, locally made weapons, AK’s PKM’s and RPG’s. America’s deer hunters would be the largest army in the world.
            Believe me, there is no one in their right mind who ever wants to fight “us.”

        • Stronghorse

          I know a lot of active duty, ( as well as veterans), and I can tell you that you are mistaken in this.

          http://beforeitsnews.com/police-state/2015/12/will-you-embrace-your-right-to-protect-freedom-video-2652.html

          • LiberalsRLost

            we will disagree here sir….. waaaay too many young kids on welfare heavy in debt will not risk their stripes for taking a stand…..remember Michael New…….???? ever see any of the Katrina videos where they kicked in doors to collect guns…????

            No sir we will just respectfully disagree and if history of the civil war is to teach us anything it will be a huge split within the military….may God’s grace prevail ……. we will all need it…

          • Stronghorse

            I have no problem with your belief, I’ll even defend your right to speak it. So perhaps we can just agree to disagree on this subject.
            One final note though, I am sitting next to an Army veteran who just got out two months ago, and he says you are mistaken on this issue also.

          • LiberalsRLost

            I pray the two of you are correct….quite honestly I am not looking forward to finding out…!

          • Stronghorse

            On that, we are in total agreement!

          • LiberalsRLost

            I just found this and want to share it with you and you can pass along as you wish but I hope it will help further our discussion for the benefit of many.
            http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/ad-shows-army-prepping-for-martial-law-this-is-not-battle-training-this-is-riot-control_12302015

            Enjoy, I found the quotations from Gen. Butler quite interesting as well….it was down within the body of comments…..happy new year…all pats….

        • berrybestfarm

          How many of us are old enough to remember Kent State? Yes, the military will turn on us. Have you talked to the vapid minds that make up our cannon fodder? Lib is right. It’s going to be bloody.
          Dennis Patterson–Deer Park, WA

          • LiberalsRLost

            Kent State oh yeah, remember all too well sir…..
            Yeah our young troop are thoroughly gung ho and what more do you want from a young mind then to sell usa…usa…usa… and give him a opportunity to taste blood by fire……gets them all pumped up……

          • Stronghorse

            My young friend here says that there are indeed a certain percentage of the type that would just follow orders, but he assures me, (as have many others), that the gung-ho crowd is severely outnumbered by the majority of active duty personnel. In fact, those who have returned from Iraq & Afghanistan are the ones who now know they were lied to and they are not happy about it! I’m told that the ones with the experience, that are on our side, keep track of the gung-ho types on purpose. Just in case.
            From what I’ve been hearing, the smart ones plan on taking care of the dumb ones before they grab their gear and head home to defend their families and homes!

          • Great news, sir, glad to hear it!

          • Stronghorse

            Yes, I do remember that horrid day!
            However, many years have passed and people are much better informed now due to the internet. Also not as prone to blindly follow either. The sixties, (JFK, MLK, etc.), woke a lot of people up.
            Even the Katrina/New Orleans mess was law enforcement personnel, NOT Active Duty Military personnel.

      • sunshine

        The military is chock full of vibrant diversities that would love nothing more than taking away whitey’s guns. Don’t delude yourself that they’ll ever be on your side.

    • Dan Black

      Everyone forgets the Dick Act of 1902 which can’t be repealed. There is no legal way to enforce gun control.

      • JW

        Perhaps no way to LEGALLY enforce gun control.

        But then again, what has the present POTUS done legally?

        • LiberalsRLost

          i’m confident he will not dismount his girly bike to get mine!

          But his toadies will come back with a story of pain for trying…

    • Kevnbrute

      Your a weak individual with self defeating views. You are the submissive, the type of person that lets life happen to you. I feel sorry for you!

      • rich

        You don’t have to feel sorry for me! I speak about what I see going on. Do you really think Congress is going to step in and stop Obama from doing what he has planned? Is that just like they stepped in and stopped those 2 bills he wanted with the debt ceiling and the Iran deal? Yeah, right! You go on and believe what you want, clown, but it all points to this country being taken down by Obama. Jackasses like you just keep spewing your sewer talk about how big and bad you are and no one is going to take your guns but when the rubber hits the road you will be the first to cower and hide. I know what it’s like to fight in a war as that’s what I was doing in 1967 and just like in Nam when the civilians (Viet Cong) tried to go us they had no chance. That’s the way it will be when Obama comes after our guns- we will have no chance. Self defeating views? I don’t think so! How about realistic views, jerk?!

        • Kevnbrute

          I’m only one man, same as you. Only I didn’t get bent by the Vietnam conflict. It only made me stronger in my convictions. The media swayed the American people with propaganda and after winning we pulled out only to let the death takeover begin. This is why I’m standing up to an oppressive government and traveling to Burns Oregon, not cowering in the safety of my home! I always remember the lives given for our country but will NEVER be fooled again. My boys were advised to not join the military as 4 generations did before them! However they WILL be standing with me right here as I do know where the real power is. God gave us freewill ind my family will be standing for the constitution! Give me liberty or give me death!

          • rich

            If you think for even one moment that I am condoning what this corrupt and crooked government is doing you are absolutely wrong! But if it comes down to us against them I will not be in the trenches. My days have come and gone. I hope there are enough young men who stand up against them. BTW, we did not win the Vietnam War because the government would not let us. We lost over 58,000 for no reason at all since we weren’t able to finish the fighting. We would have but it didn’t happen.

          • Kevnbrute

            I was once only one. Now I am three, with three strong sons ready to pick up the torch of freedom. My hopes lie in these three young patriots as I to am in the fall of my life. However if necessary I will lift my rifle and squeeze the trigger in response to oppression and tyranny. God bless!

          • rich

            Gotcha! I’m a little more into that ‘fall of my life’ thing but if I’m going to go down I will go down shooting. I just can’t be humping around in some field like I could decades ago.

          • Kevnbrute

            Be sure and keep up the fight, Rich. Aim straight and true, identify and let it fly. Your intent is known, God bless you, look forward to seeing you on the other side. But not too soon I pray! I knew you were a good heart, just had to prod you a bit, thanks!

          • rich

            Know for sure that Jesus is coming back and soon. That creep thinks he has it all under control but I read the book and I know who wins in the end. Like I said if they come and get me I will take some of them out first. I already know where I’m headed when I leave this earth and there’s no one who can stop me. God bless you too and keep your head up.

    • archer

      Forget congress, they are useless whore’s willing to kill the golden goose for their own gain, whatever happens it won’t be pretty, but neither was the civil war and no one wanted to stop it. Don’t rely on any compassion or common sense from these fools.

      • rich

        All we have seen from Congress is a bunch of weenies who wouldn’t know how to fight if they had to. They are worthless and they are nobody who can be trusted. To hell with them!

  • wilson

    The People’s Republic of California!!!

    • leroy jenkins

      Commiefornia

  • hadabellyfull

    ===all whites are terrorist to___________.

  • Enough is enough

    Hopefully the big one hits and California breaks off and sinks into the ocean.

    • Chir

      Never work. California would not sink, its a “floater” turd.

      • disqus_lsSGzxBypZ

        Yep. Defineately a floater turd. POTUS is a floater turd too!

    • NonYo Business

      I think more helpful would be to “sink” Washington DC when congress is in Full session.

    • Reverend Draco

      I’m waiting for the Big One to hit – when everything east of the San Andreas falls into the Atlantic.

  • mirageseekr

    The author conveniently left out that both “events” were government controlled false flags. Wake up folks, a government using lies and deceit to turn you helpless hardly has your best interest in mind.

  • Metatron Dodecahedron

    CDC cites over 47,000 dead from Pharma OD in 2014. Criminals killed around 8,000 with guns in 2014… most being inner city GANG violence…. WHERE IS THE PHARMA CONTROL ????????????

  • Airb0rne4325

    This is a ticking time bomb. It will only be a matter of time before they go to the wrong house and try to take their guns from them. The new revolution is at hand and the people are being pushed into a corner by their constantly overreaching government. It is only a matter of time, now.

    • RandyJ/ProudSurvivor

      100% agree. They say soldiers don’t get to pick their wars and that’s true. Revolutionaries, on the other hand, do-and will. It may not be what any of us want, but for once, there may actually be a war that is truly being fought to preserve our freedoms. Godspeed to my fellow rebels!

  • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

    After reading the link the law reads that this is a 21 day confiscation. During that time a hearing shall be held to determine if a need for a one year confiscation is needed.

    If the law is applied as written, it might prove to save some lives, especially in divorce procedures. The law provides a method for those that had their firearms confiscated to get them back. Read the law and understand what it says.

    Knowing how messed up parts of California are, I wonder how this law will be applied.

    I am a pro 2nd amendment as anyone. That being said, this is one law that actually might be beneficial to the accused. IF that is IF it is applied correctly.

    Take into consideration that the law does not put you in jail. (Some people still have jobs they need to go to.) Also unless the accused does something stupid before the court hearing, the accused gets their guns back. Eventually. Of course the law focuses a lot more on confiscation than it does giving them back to the owner. But this is to be expected.

    Now, does this law violate our constitutional rights under the bill of rights? Probably.

    • CorruptionInColumbia

      You are not “Pro 2nd Amendment”. You are a coward and a sellout.

      • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

        You don’t know me very well, do you?

        • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

          Just how many firearms are in your collection?

          • CorruptionInColumbia

            I don’t know exactly, but probably around 80.

          • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

            Then, you should know better than answer that question online.

        • CorruptionInColumbia

          Well, your comment that this kind of law might beva good thing is kind of telling.

    • Right to the Point

      Actually you don’t even have to get that far into the Constitution. Article 1, sec. 9 details it for you. It violates all aspects of “Due Process.” Having said that, back in the 80’s and 90’s the police would show up at “Domestic Disputes” and Arrest one of the parties involved (not a punch thrown or anything). Almost always the Man. Often times it was initiated by a neighbor’s complaint. Police would then Coerce the other party to file a Restraining order. Later these folk found out in 94′ under the “Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act” that their 2nd Amendment right was taken Ex Post Facto after they had simply pleaded out of court so that it would not cost them an arm and a leg. Careful what you wish for. The cannon will be pointed your direction next!

      • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

        The ex parte part is what seems to violate the rights of the accused. Of course, this is for the most part, to get a warrant from the judge. This is always done ex parte. For those that do not know, ex parte is a legal term meaning that only one side of accused (law enforcement) has approached the judge. The accused does not even know this is taking place.

        • Right to the Point

          Taking Property without charge is a “Bill of Attainder.” That is what the Due Process Amendments are based upon…..Clearly Unconstitutional.

          • Stronghorse

            Very good!
            Not many people would have known that, you are obviously well informed and have done your homework!
            Good on ya!

          • Right to the Point

            You know Stronghorse, even to this day if I read through the Constitution I find something new to grind on. Our Founders were brilliant….

          • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

            That’s why I wrote the last line in my main comment.

          • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

            So is the civil asset forfeiture BS that goes on. Clearly something wrong with it, and it rarely stands up in court when challenged.

      • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

        Respectfully, I didn’t wish for this law. Nor do I live in California. I don’t think I would fit in well with their form of government. I know there are many people out there that are trying to find a way out, and I don’t blame them.

    • JW

      One problem I see with it is.
      A woman files for divorce and gets a restraining order on her husband. Police confiscate husbands firearms. Now he has no protection when his wife walks in and blows him away with the gun her brother gave her.
      And that can happen with the parties reversed. People will still get killed, and possibly more than if the law did not exist.

      • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

        This is true, JW. Of course, we are always sitting in this place at any time. Even if we have a firearm on us, we might not even get a chance to use it.

        I thank you for your opinion on the issue.

    • Reverend Draco

      Nicely said, braindead fucking shill.

      Now, piss off.

    • JF1962

      Do you really think that once they take your guns even if you are cleared after this so called hearing, you will actually get your guns back?

    • LiberalsRLost

      hello mr. naive…the citizens in katrina never got theirs back even after a judge ordered the leos to return them……so have enough kool aid?????

    • Stronghorse

      Actually, ANY “so-called” law that restricts any citizen’s right to own arms, is indeed in violation of the Constitution.

      Any such “law” is unconstitutional and is in its entirety, null and void, and is by definition; a “legal Fiction”.

      The second amendment clearly says: “Shall NOT be infringed”. It is also the ONLY amendment that states that the right to bear arms is NECESSARY. As in; “being necessary to the security of a free State”.

      I hope I don’t need to actually quote who makes up the lawful, constitutional “Militia”. HINT: It’s not the National Guard & Reserves!

      • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

        I am aware of this. I also know that every time I have bought a firearm from a FFL holder, I have to fill out the paperwork for it. This is since the federal firearms act of 1968. In effect, this was an infringement when this law was passed. Certain groups have been working since way back then to nibble and pick their way to totally taking our right to bear arms.

        We can quibble an moan and groan about it, and I do. The fact is they can and will come get you, or kill you, or both. Since their version of the “law” allows the enforcement arm of the government to do it and get away with it.

        In fact, in the late 70’s I actually held a FFL, but for only one year. There were a lot of forms and paperwork to fill out back then. I know it has to be worse now.

    • SP_88

      The biggest problem with a lot of these laws is that they are ripe for abuse by a rogue government. If government officials were as trustworthy as they should be than we wouldn’t have to worry. Of course if people were that trustworthy we wouldn’t need any laws to begin with. So laws need to be written in such a way as to not violate our rights as written in the constitution, a document that was necessary to keep the government from doing evil things to us. Of course they are going to play word games with the constitution and the interpretation of the wording. They will interpret it so that they can write laws that violate our rights without violating the constitution. Although many of the laws they pass violate the constitution anyway. And when the laws are challenged in court as being unconstitutional, we are at the mercy of the judge or judges to strike down any unconstitutional laws or uphold them based on their opinion.
      The 2nd amendment is written in clear terms and it is completely unambiguous.
      The right of “the people” (that would be all American citizens) to keep (that means to have in their possession or in their home or on their property) and bear (to brandish and use, such as a if a dog were to bear his teeth) arms (weapons including firearms or whatever weapons are in regular use at the time which will include ray guns, plasma weapons, laser guns, etc as the technology becomes available) shall NOT be infringed ( which means that the right cannot be impeded, limited, transgressed, encroached, curbed, eroded undermined, abbreviated, checked, disregarded, defied or violated in any way whatsoever).
      It has been argued that the 2nd amendment only applied to the militia. But this is misleading because first, the militia is made up of we the people and second, it says in the amendment “the right of the people” which means we the people, the citizens of this country, not the militia. If they meant “militia” the 2nd amendment would have said “the right of the militia men to keep and bear arms…” But it doesn’t. And if they intended for the government to write gun control laws the 2nd amendment would have said “shall not be infringed accept if ….” But again it doesn’t. I believe that the meaning of the 2nd amendment is very clear. They meant for the right to bear arms to be an individual right and they meant for it to not be infringed, limited or restricted by any law or regulation. And of course that is subject to reasonable interpretation. For instance if someone doesn’t want somebody to carry a gun onto their property, like a store owned by a person who doesn’t like guns, than their property rights need to be respected. Nobody’s rights should be exercised in a way that violates the rights of someone else.
      Many laws seem reasonable and make sense, but in reality they are unnecessary. For instance, laws that restrict certain individuals from owning a gun seem to make sense. After all, who would want a convicted felon to have a gun? But many people convicted of a felony are not violent offenders. And taking away their 2nd amendment rights is unnecessary and doesn’t do anything to make people any safer.
      Obviously if someone has been convicted of a violent crime, especially if they used a gun during the commission of the crime, they should not be allowed to buy or possess a gun. I think it would be fair if someone is convicted of a violent crime that losing their 2nd amendment rights should depend on the crime. For instance if it was a not so violent assault (a guy slapped his wife or girlfriend or pushed her) then besides whatever punishment he gets, his 2nd amendment rights should be withheld for maybe 5 or 10 years. But if it’s a violent assault (a guy beats the crap out of his wife or girlfriend, especially if it’s not the first time) or if it is an armed robbery or similar such crime, then they should lose their 2nd amendment rights for life. Somebody like that shouldn’t have a gun.
      But this is all moot because the government has an agenda, none of it is to protect the public’s safety. They wish to disarm the people for their own nefarious purposes.

      • John Henry Bicycle Lucas

        I agree, and I believe I made my thoughts known in my original post. Maybe some here didn’t read my post as I intended it, or maybe I didn’t write it well enough. I said IF this law is applied correctly.

        • SP_88

          I agree with that, I was just adding my 2 cents. There are a lot of laws that wouldn’t be a problem at all IF they were applied fairly and properly. In fact the government could have a lot more power to do what they needed to do without all this time wasting bureaucracy if we didn’t have to worry about them abusing the power. But because they abuse their power, we can’t trust them with it, not even if it is to save lives, because they will end up abusing their power and taking more lives than they save.
          The war on drugs is a good example of endangering more people than they save. They will execute a no knock warrant and smash up an entire house a make the place uninhabitable with broken windows and doors and furniture, etc and point guns at people and throw concussion grenades through the windows and all so they can arrest one petty drug addict who sold a $20 bag of blow or weed to some lowlife informant. They will have risked the lives of the entire family living in that house for one person. And people will say “well they shouldn’t have let him live there” but a lot of the time these people don’t know what this person is doing or if he is wanted, and the police certainly don’t know if the people this person they want is staying with have any idea that their guest is going to get them raided. They have no right to risk the lives of innocent people to arrest a non-violent offender. Being a drug addict is a victimless crime. And selling drugs is a victimless crime. It doesn’t give the police the right to destroy personal property and endanger their lives. And there are way too many times when they accidentally shoot someone, many times a child, and come to find out they are at the wrong address or in the wrong apartment. This is something that they need to stop doing. We cannot trust the government to make good decisions, and we can’t trust them with too much power.
          Sorry for the rant, it’s not because I didn’t agree with you, I was just adding my thoughts, and once I get going I tend to drag it out.

  • breakawaymotorsports .

    Do not keep all of your firearms in one place.Same thing with ammo.They cannot take what they can’t find. Anything “missing” from their list (and they do have lists) must have been lost in the boating accident I had a while ago…

    • SP_88

      I have a feeling that there have been a lot of boating accidents that resulted in the loss of many firearms and ammunition. 😉

      • My boat sucks, personally, crashes all the time 😉
        I’d buy a new one but I can’t afford one with obamacare, hehehe, I hope you know that one was a joke, lol!

  • Don’t register your weapons, they can’t take what they don’t know you have + hide and bury emergency weapons… fuck these commies.

    • Right to the Point

      Couldn’t agree more!

    • JW

      Don’t use a credit card or check to buy ammo. It is possible to link the ammo to YOU if you do. And if you are buying ammo for a weapon that is not registered then they have a strong suspicion that you have something that will shoot that ammo! If you ain’t careful, “they” will know!

      • Good advice! Ares armor accepts bitcoin! Other than that everything is handled face-to-face with cash for me.

    • sunshine

      It’s becoming just like The Turner Diaries. Funny story…my mother had that book (who even knows where she got it) and she had a FBI agent as a friend who stayed with her and he saw it and FREAKED the hell out, saying it was a terrorist book and she needed to get rid of it…lol she told him she hadn’t even read it yet and had no idea what it was even about.

      • lol, his thought control reacted like it was programmed to.

    • Stronghorse

      There are also hundreds of thousands of “weapons” in this country that have never been registered. A lot were passed down through the generations that were bought before any type of registration was ever enacted. {Not that ANY of the ones that have been enacted were ever legal!}
      They have actually admitted, (on numerous occasions), that they really have no idea how many guns there are in the United States. They can only estimate!
      Well, I would bet my last ounce of silver that their estimates are WAY off.

  • Right to the Point

    This is how they will come, just like the Nazis. In the dead of the night and one at a time. That way there is an air of guilt sub planted in the surrounding neighbors minds.

  • Mr Gadget

    It compliments using the social security administration’s new illegal powers and the VA’s illegal powers of gun confiscation nicely…not to mention the supreme commie courts inaction allowing states, cities, and municipalities to start banning guns and ammo that is scary. The gun confiscation steps are getting bigger and more frequent and tolerated everyday.

    • They scribble and we ignore scribbles… until we can’t anymore.

      • Mr Gadget

        step by step…you’d almost think it was a planned assault.

  • Mike

    From my cold dead hands after I have passed out all my lead

  • Herman Nelson

    It does frighten me. At this point in time, the no-fly list is a black hole. No one but the PTB knows who is on it. Americans on the list will not know until they attempt to fly. In the Constitution, there is this thing called “Due Process”. I understand the retards at the alphabet agencies think of this a foreign concept, but they still fall under it and they still fall under Constitutional Law. Americans on the list have the right to face accusations and the accusers in court. They have a right to trial by a jury of their peers. The no-fly list is a “guilty” without any recourse.

    I’m waiting for them to start using NICS checks to automatically add gun purchasers to the list.

    • ccambridge

      If you owe income taxes they are pulling passports. This is their test run. Next you won’t be able to fly if you owe. Centralized government is not what this country was founded upon. I don’t even feel like living here anymore but it seems that the majority of countries are corrupt and centralized. We are no better off than in the days of feudal lords.

  • Mr Anthill

    The no fly list is a list with the most abusive potential. We are already hearing from MANY people who were placed on the secret noflylist for no reason, and who are not given reasons or answers by stonewalling overpaid under-worked federal tax-welfare bureaucrats. How convenient a tool for tyrannical dirty politicians. Since politicians are generally liars, sociopaths, and criminals, you can be sure that these elitists will be expanding and abusing this tool of oppression because they FEAR the American people. Why people worship politicians and why they feel that they need “leaders” in the first place is bewildering. The politicians are snakes and liars. You are the problem for glorifying these freaks.

    Nearly 40% Of Those On The Government’s Terrorist Watchlist Have ‘No Affiliation With Recognized Terrorism Groups’
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140805/11295828116/nearly-40-those-governments-terrorist-watchlist-have-no-affiliation-with-recognized-terrorism-groups.shtml

    In 2013 alone, 468,749 watch-list nominations were submitted to the
    National Counter-terrorism Center. It rejected only 1 percent of the
    recommendations.

    • AIPAC is a terrorist organization, when will we treat it as such? I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

  • defender

    Hitler has arrived.

  • SP_88

    Most of the people on the no fly list are foreigners. And they are attempting to use that to make people believe that this list and the loss of 2nd amendment rights is no threat to Americans. But once they get this agenda rolling you can be sure that they will add the names of a whole lot of “domestic terrorists” and then the confiscations will begin.
    The best way to protect our rights is to stick together. As individuals we will be easy to disarm. But if we stand together it will be very difficult or impossible for them to violate our rights. Obviously the MSM will portray groups like the Oath Keepers as criminals protecting terrorists. The MSM is a bunch of liars and they have mostly lost any credibility they had, so who cares what they say as long as there is a voice of truth to counter their lies.
    There may be a lot of people who aren’t convinced that they will raid people’s homes and confiscate their firearms because of the threat of revolution. And there is some truth to that. But they are desperate to disarm Americans.
    It seems like they are focused on the laws and finding a way to legally take away our 2nd amendment rights and confiscate our firearms. But the truth is that if they could, they would just come and take away the guns, law or no law. They aren’t looking for a way to legally take the guns, they are looking for a way to convince the public that it’s the right thing to do. They want to do it with as little opposition as possible. They want people to accept it, even if they don’t like it. They want to be able to justify their actions as legal and not tyrannical. They want and need people to support their actions. If they don’t, they will not be able to take the guns. And I’m pretty sure they don’t support the government and their tyrannical agenda. More of them know what will happen next after the guns are gone. Most of them know their history.
    People basically have no choice but to fight for their 2nd amendment rights. If they give up their rights, they will die. And if they fight for their rights, they could die, but they probably won’t. So it only makes sense to choose the option that gives them the best chance of success. And that is obviously to do whatever it takes to keep our rights.
    Hopefully the government will come to their senses and give up this crazy notion of disarming Americans. That way we can avoid having to fight off the violent and unlawful assault of government agents and police officers against an innocent population. Hopefully the government will realize that we the people are serious about keeping our rights. What part of “shall not be infringed” do they not get?
    We are not the aggressors here. We have not done anything wrong. Firearms owners and CCW permit holders in particular are the most lawful people in America, even compared to the police. People who have a pistol permit are arrested for crime at a rate of one sixth as much as police officers. Police officers are six times more likely to be arrested for a crime than civilians with a pistol permit. So how can these politicians possibly justify any legislation that criminalizes the actions of these people? Especially considering the fact that the police officers who would be arresting them are more likely criminals than they are. The whole idea of portraying gun owners as criminals who need to be regulated is ridiculous. No matter how you look at it, gun control laws do not make sense. Once you examine the facts it becomes obvious that gun control laws are doing more harm than good. The statistics, logic, facts and history shows their true motives and it shows the fallacy of their claim that they are doing this for our safety.
    Statistics show that more gun control laws equals more crime, and disarmed citizens are easier targets for criminals. These statistics show the same thing whether it’s by city, state, country or internationally, and only the most cherry picked and distorted numbers from gun grabbers show anything different.
    The logic shows that if you outlaw guns, than only outlaws will have guns. Criminals do not follow the laws and so adding new gun control laws is just foolish. It’s getting to the point where even the good people are no longer following these ridiculous laws out of fear of becoming a victim of a home invasion or robbery.
    The facts show that we already have plenty of laws that could be used to clean up the streets and prosecute every criminal and gang member who has committed a gun crime or any other crimes. But they aren’t enforcing these laws. They are not doing their job. There are thousands of gun control laws already in existence that are not being enforced. There is absolutely no need to make one more law. The laws necessary to arrest and convict these criminals are already there. And these politicians already know this. So what is their real reason for wanting stricter gun control laws? If they aren’t using the laws we already have to solve the actual problems we have, then what problem are they really trying to solve? I’m sure it’s obvious to all the gun owners. They want all the guns so they can control the population without any resistance from them. A simple examination of all the facts will prove that. They are not enforcing these laws and they are allowing or causing people to commit gun crimes and mass shootings so they can justify stricter gun laws. For instance, one argument against banning “assault weapons” was that they are only used in a very, very small number of shootings. And suddenly there are these shootings by people using AR-15’s like Sandy Hook and San Bernardino. And I’m sure that it won’t be long before there are high profile crimes committed using 3D printed firearms. And the MSM will run these stories continuously until people start to believe that these crimes are happening hundreds of times. How many times have you read or saw a news story and wondered if it was a new incident or a different version of an old story because the way they told the story was so different than how you heard it originally? That’s no accident. They do these things on purpose to give the impression that it is widespread rather than one or two incidents. And they do it to justify their gun laws or whatever other unconstitutional laws they are pushing.
    The history shows that once the government disarmes the citizens, that mass killings and genocide is not far behind. The 20th century was full of incidents where hundreds of millions of people were killed by their government after being disarmed.
    So let’s not let these politicians fool us into believing that we need more gun control laws. And let’s not let the MSM fool us into believing that guns are just being handed to anyone who wants one through all these “loopholes” that need to be “filled” with ridiculous laws.
    The only guns being handed out to criminals are the ones on the streets already, the ones that won’t be effected by any gun laws. And that black market for illegal firearms will grow exponentially when they outlaw more guns. It’s something that the government will never be able to control. And they are asking for trouble by trying.

    • Violent U.S. crime drops again, reaches 1970s level: FBI
      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-fbi-idUSKCN0IU1UM20141110 – only gun problems are inter-city and gun-free locations, those are the places the most people are killed.

      • SP_88

        And those are the places that they seem to be avoiding with their gun control laws and enforcement of the laws that they already have. If they were to clean up those areas of all the criminals and violent crimes, gun crime and homicides would be almost non-existent. But then there would be no statistics to use to push their agenda. As it is they have to twist the facts and cherry pick the numbers to make it look like we need gun control laws to solve this “rampant” gun crime spree.
        I’m sure that you are well aware of the ridiculous exaggeration of the statistics that the MSM have been using to shock people into believing that we have a huge gun crime problem in America. Things like 243 mass shootings this year and 75 school shootings so far this year. When you take away all the BS from those numbers it’s more like 44 mass shootings since 2000, and the number of actual school shootings is more like 6 or 7. That’s a gross exaggeration of the statistics. Unfortunately once they spread disinformation like this, it’s hard to get the truth to counter them to spread as easily. The huge lies will be on the front page in giant letters, but the correction is in the back mixed in with crap nobody reads, if you can get them to even print a correction.
        The Obama regime is using the MSM to keep people believing that crime is rampant and the domestic terrorists are the ones we need to worry about more than ISIS. He is trying to turn our law enforcement officers against the Christians, militia groups and patriots by labeling them as dangerous extremists. Obama wants them to clamp down on any anti-government groups and alternative media and journalists who are trying to spread the truth about the government and their agenda. He basically wants any dissidents to be silenced and shut down so that the only message the people hear is what the government wants them to hear.

  • sam

    No dominiation sorry brother this will lead to Civil WAR Absulte and it Going to get a bunch of Good & Bad cops killed For NOTHING I say what a Waste

  • WeeSee

  • LiberalsRLost

    we can make this easy by culling all masons and KC members, that will cover all politicians, and the social structure of present corruption….

  • Stronghorse

    I NEVER swore ANY oath to ANY PERSON!
    The sacred oath I swore, was to the Constitution Of The United States. To defend IT from ALL enemies, both foreign and domestic.
    Actually I took the oath several times, even though it should not have been necessary, because that oath, (that many of us took), has NO EXPIRATION DATE.
    My oath doesn’t expire until I do! And I WILL keep it.

  • RandyJ/ProudSurvivor

    Let them make their fucking lists! I’m old enough now that I don’t care anymore about their damn lists. I don’t care if they know what I think about them, what I say about them, whether I plan to resist them or if they’re coming to kill me. The only thing that matters to me anymore, is whether there are enough of my fellow countrymen who will stand up to the bastards when the time comes. I don’t want to die a lone martyr trying to preserve something for the apathetic masses who would just as easily accept the rule of absolute tyranny. I will fight for as long as there are others like me to fight for. God can sort out the rest.

  • Kevnbrute

    The country with unconstitutional encroachment on the second amendment might necessarily represent the beginning of the conservative Christian revolution. If forced to turn over our firearms without due process, we the people might necessarily revolt! Notice to fraud potus! Your ignorance is not bliss! May nightmares envelope your soul and torment you all the rest of your days!

    • That POS deserves that, at least. He’s come a long way from polishing helmets for crack money, zionist money can do that for you in exchange for your soul, he thinks he got a great deal!

    • ccambridge

      He has no soul

  • Alleged Comment

    HOW is it that your government has TURNED against you?

    When they are ELECTED to REPRESENT your rights enshrined in your Constitution as a privilege to you??

    These elected officials NO LONGER work for you and can be declared null & void as they have not honored their CONTRACTUAL agreement. Everybody must understand this and not enforce anything they say.

    Do not fear them. They do not represent you or me!

    They can either leave being pulled by the ear by mom or be taken out in handcuffs.

  • AllodialTitle

    Be an ARMS owner,,,no guns.

  • pooky2483

    Can’t people see that the government(S) are overstepping their mark and becoming dictators. WE need to stop them in their tracks and remove them from office immediately. They won’t listen to the argument of ‘no confidence’. They need to forcibly be removed from office as they won’t listen to any form of reasoning and they think they are above the law. They are even changing the law so as to give them immunity from prosecution, yet change the law to make almost anything we do become illegal.

    We need to march en-mass on the white house and Number 10 and demand they leave immediately or we will forcibly remove them.Yes, some of us may be shot by brainwashed ‘guards’ but it would soon stop as we would outnumber them as more and more people turned up.

  • Tatiana Covington

    What makes you think that you must abide by others’ decisions, just because they follow a pattern? It’s none of your business! There is no reason for stare decisis.

  • gooseberry

    This is just one of a billion examples of how Totalitarianism increasingly gets worse over time when citizens allow it to happen. I don’t know who I disrespect/despise more, the oppressors or the tyranny-worshipping, flag-waving-patriotic, worthless morons. There should be and should have been an asymmetric-guerilla war going on against this 100% Corrupt, Totalitarian, Police-State Government now, and at any time in it’s history. But, in order for that to happen or to have taken place, you would have to have citizens that are worth more than the puss running out of a pimple on a cockroach’s ass, and that situation does not exist and never has.