Doctors Making Parents ‘Admit’ They Are ‘Knowingly Endangering Their Child’s Life’ with New Vaccine Refusal Form

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Top Tier Gear USA

Screenshot 2016-06-28 at 4.35.57 AM

The new vaccine refusal form, produced by the American Academy of Pediatrics to be handed out in doctor’s offices across the country to parents who don’t want to vaccinate their kids, essentially forces those parents to incriminate themselves and “admit” that by signing they are knowingly putting their child’s life and health at risk, in addition to the lives and health of others who come into contact with their non-vaccinated child.

“I know that failure to follow the recommendations about vaccination may endanger the health or life of my child and others with whom my child might come into contact,” the form says.

Edgy Truth reports, “… it is a total propaganda sheet about the alleged value of vaccines, the alleged ‘risk’ of not vaccinating and, even worse, the parent who signs the form is falsely ‘admitting’ that they are putting their children at risk.”

Those who sign the form will, of course, be databased for it as well; the form itself even includes a line for the “child’s ID number”. Can you imagine all the ways such a form could be used against parents? It makes it seem as if not vaccinating a child is tantamount to neglect and endangerment, after all. It’s basically like signing a child abuse confession.

You can see where this kind of thing is headed as well; if, one day, it is declared that denying vaccinations is no longer a parent’s right, states could use such information to force vaccinations on kids the way that some states have forced chemotherapy on Amish children whose parents refused the treatment for more natural options.

Not only that, but if someone happens to come down with a vaccine preventable disease around the child, would the parent be able to be held personally liable for damages? That parent would have signed a piece of paper essentially saying so without any further proof required.

In short, who in their right mind would sign this??

(Funny the news comes out right at the same time the CDC admits that FluMist, given to kids under eight because it is supposedly more effective than the shots, is actually only an abysmal three percent effective.)

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  • Mike

    The new form will be used to take kids from parents that know the harm vaccines cause and because of that they don’t want their kids vaccinated. They will be used to say that the parent KNOWINGLY PUT THEIR CHILD IN DANGER, thus proving them unfit to have their kids when all they were doing is PROTECTING THEM form the HARM VACCINES CAUSE.

    • There are forms you can force your doctor to sign also that states they will be FULLY liable if a reaction or ANY negative side effects happen, to date I don’t think it has ever been signed.

      • Gary

        Still, no money can ever replace a life. I would want blood for blood, life for life, but not sure on the legality of requesting a signature on such a form. 🙂

        • Ron Roy

          Can you imagine what would happen to a doctor that caused harm to an outlaw bikers kid. That would be one doctor that needs a doctor.

          • Gary

            I think a doctor willfully harming a child with vaccines and abusing the trust invested in him is enough to turn any parent into an outlaw biker. 🙂

      • CC

        “If Your Doctor Insists That Vaccines Are Safe, Then Have Them Sign This Form” – Dr. Dave Mihalovic –

        • Ron Roy

          I printed a copy and will make many copies to hand out to as many people as I can. Thanks

    • Gary

      Not just in the US (but hey, most governments are dancing to the same tune). I was asked to sign such a form recently in AU, where one of the statements you are signing to is “I have understood and agree to the information provided me about vaccination”.

      Very dangerous thing to sign (without crossing out the incorrect parts), legally. You could always argue it was signed under duress, but safer not to sign at all.

      • Safer not to sign, but you could always put “For receipt only” so it becomes useless to them in any proceeding that would depend on your agreement with any of the contents.

        • Gary

          I hadn’t heard of this. So it is essentially signing it has been handed over, but not agreed with? Thanks.

          • Yep, it’s very common with shipboard documents that need to be acknowledged without creating liability. For insurance, a shipment of supplies might be delivered and the supplier will want the ship to sign a list that says we received everything. We don’t have time to confirm that every item is there, but we can sign the paper itself “For Receipt Only.” I’m not sure how well it would work in more private contexts, but it could shut people up who only care if your name is signed without paying attention to any qualifiers.

    • Accountable

      And now the medical insurance group, Cooperative of American Physicians, sent a letter to California doctors claiming that only the CDC’s determination of medical exemption applies to SB277. That is a pretty despicable twisting of the law that actually gives the physician the right to determine why a child should have a medical exemption (including a family medical history that contraindicates vaccinations).

      They go on to support kicking children out of their practice. So, I guess the ER is going to get a lot busier, because they can’t legally kick a child out. If the medical insurance group is now getting involved with micro-managing doctors, it’s only a matter of time before they start forcing adults to get vaccinations or threatening us with termination of health care.

    • BigGaySteve

      The standard against medical advice form covers everything, only an ahole would make parents deal with this.

    • AutismDadd

      catch 22

  • Yet no concern for kids when a recently vaccinated child goes back to school and sheds the virus they were just vaccinated against.

      • Vaxxer logic = you must POISON your way to true health! LOL!

        • Please provide evidence that anything in the vaccines is toxic at the exposure levels provided by routine vaccination.

          Good luck.

          Oh and we know that health doesn’t come through a needle. It’s just that immunity to specific diseases can.

          • Please read any vaccine insert and find out that it says right on it that the vaccine may not even work!!

          • First, you tell me that the Pharma companies and the goverment lie about everything all the time and then you tell me to read the package inserts written by…. Big Pharma and regulated by…the goverment.

            I’ve read the inserts and VISes, thank you. Nothing on that list scares me.

            Your logical fallacy is the Nirvana Fallacy.

            Now, the request was:

            “Please provide evidence that anything in the vaccines is toxic at the exposure levels provided by routine vaccination.”

          • You Nirvana fallacy vaxxers love to use the phrase “nirvana fallacy,” LOL! Alinsky 101 I guess…..

          • Wouldn’t know, don’t know what Alinsky is.

            And we’re the ones saying that an imperfect solution is better than no solution at all which is the opposite of a Nirvana Fallacy.

  • Gil G

    Because they are. Also how nice of the Amish to let their kids die naturally of cancer.

  • Constitutionalist

    I would bring in my own lawyer approved form that they must sign in return. I can guarantee that no one would sign that one. Tit for tat. As a matter of fact, this would be a great idea for aspiring upcoming lawyers (puke). It would be a legally binding form holding the doctor and clinic liable for all ailments to the child for life. Get around that big pharma!

    • I don’t know why parents who believe that mainstream medicine is as ineffective as it can easily be shown to be, bother to take their kids to any doctor, when they can doctor them as well or better themselves. Of course, that applied to the parents, as well. Because my income is limited, I see doctors at a volunteer medical clinic, where the doctors are NEVER in a hurry to move to the next patient, and cost nothing. The primary reason I go to it is to get a refill prescription for the Lisinopril that I am forced to take to retain my CDL, although the friendly atmosphere and doctors that are willing to discuss anything medical objectively is a close second. Although they’d happily pay for the Lisinopril, I self pay the $10 per quarter that it costs, so that their money can be used for the more needy.

      • Gary

        They try to vaccinate children from birth. Home birth these days (to my knowledge) seems almost a lost art.

        • Modern prenatal “care” is designed to habituate the mother and the child to the mainstream medicine paradigm. With proper nutrition and natural care, virtually every child can be born wherever and wherever they deem appropriate, and their first destination should be their mother’s breast, where they will get the shots of colostrum that will convey resistance to every pathogen that mommy has been exposed to, giving their immune system a strong start.
          If allopathy doesn’t nip this in the bud, the need for doctors will be greatly attenuated, to use an appropriate term.

        • It’s making a comeback, but the trouble is that home birth advocates can’t deal with anything but s standard, ideal birth, and have a miserable record of stillbirths and infant mortality. Sometimes they’re so dedicated to “natural birth” that they’ll prevent a dying newborn from getting outside medical attention. Hospital births have the best outcomes, but it would be nice if there was better safety available for parents who do prefer home birth.

          • Standard ideal births have been made history by modern medical procedures and practices. Societies that have routine home births because of the dearth of hospitals or doctors to oversee them have lower rates of stillbirth and maternal mortality than modern hospitals and America’s rates of such are higher than most other first world countries records. Hospitals’ records are set for a massive downturn with the introduction of postnatal vaccination batteries.

          • Yeah? Which societies are those? The countries I’m looking at with better stats have routine hospital births and similar vaccination programs. I think you’re either lying or you’ve been lied to.

          • There are places in the world where there are no hospitals, doctors, midwives, or bureaucrats to record statistics. Those places also have low pollution, no vaccinations, and nothing but natural food, so they lack all of the “advantages” of hospitals and we cannot know, for certain, what their experiences are, aside from the reports of missionaries, many of which have told amazing stores of successful unattended births in the boonies, where the mother put the baby to her breast and went on about her business, something that would almost never happen in the first world.
            I suppose that you eschew the premise that all are to be considered innocent until proven guilty, as demonstrated by your premise that what we don’t know, doesn’t exist.
            Have you ever perused the WHO’s statistics?

          • Where? The places with the lowest documented infant and mother mortality have modern hospitals and vaccination programs. I am not impressed by vague claims that probably some unnamed missionaries somewhere reported that a baby didn’t die, as opposed to actual statistics showing that countries without access to hospitals and vaccines have dismal infant and maternal mortality rates. I am not seduced by wishful primitivist fantasies. I have been to many countries without hospitals and widespread vaccination. They are horrible places to live. People there wish very much that they had access to modern medicine.

          • The vast majority of Americans live in what I consider to be horrible, and even terrible, places to live, large cities. Modern medicine is the least modern of all of the scientific fields, because its “science” is based on patentability and profitability rather than healing. It is well known that the longest-lived people live in places that you wouldn’t even consider livable. The absence of industrial pollution and textbook medicine doesn’t prevent them from living much longer than those with access to modern medicine. In fact, that is why they feature so many centenarians, because modern conveniences don’t make them fat or kill them off with the stresses of modern life. They also don’t suffer from the institutionalized ignorance that you so proudly display.

          • This is demonstrably false. Documented life expectancy among communities without access to modern medicine are dismal. I’ve been to these places. They are not oases of natural health. The longest life expectancies are in places like Japan and Iceland, neither of which I would consider unlivable. I would not want to live in places like Mozambique or Haiti.

            By the way, the Amazing Stories you’re reading about Abkhazians routinely living to 150 are fiction designed to trick you into buying special food. Try to find any source that will back up the claims about Abkhazians that doesn’t have a convenient store.

          • If it demonstrably false, why don’t you prove so, instead of using ad hominem on me? I don’t have any idea where these “Amazing Stories” come from, since I haven’t seen them, probably because you see more mainstream media in a day than I see in a year. Since you haven’t posted any citations to support your claims that mine ar false, your sources might be more faulty than my own.

          • I looked for the claim about Abkhazians and found a scam site selling food they claim will give you the same results. They used unsupported anecdotal claims of longevity that I certainly never heard about when I was in Georgia. Then I looked up global statistics on life expectancy and, as expected, first-world countries with modern medicine and food come in way ahead, in the high 70s and 80s. Countries without modern medicine and food tended to come in way behind.


          • History records 100-200 years ago:

            Organic food.

            At least some attempts at sanitation and hygiene , mostly in the form of detached waste (i.e. outhouses) and tin baths.

            And a woman’s most common cause of death? Childbirth.

          • Based on what screwball list?

          • I don’t think you quite grasp what history is.

          • Most of human history was never recorded. Most of what you appear to consider to be historic appears to be hallucinatory.

          • Correct. Most of human history was never recorded.

            That would be PREhistoric.

            100-200 years ago is well within the HISTORIC era though.

          • Now that we’ve established that we both know what historic is, where did you get the specious premise that a woman’s most common cause of death is childbirth?

          • Where did you get the specious premise that I think that a woman’s most common cause of death IS childbirth, rather than WAS?

          • Where did you get the specious premise that it has ever been or ever will be?

          • Ever been – history.

          • Never has been in the modern first world.

          • 1)Nice goalpost moving.

            2)History =/= modern first world.

  • Parents who take their children to doctors who will comply with this mandate endanger them even more.

  • The only question is whether the notary will charge as much to wait on the doctor who probably will refuse to sign this form as the cost of the prophylactic nutrition would.

  • Health Fitness Cafe

    I would walk out of the doctor’s office if he insisted I sign the form and go find a an alternative healthcare practitioner.

    • Gary

      It can be a little more difficult than that if you’re at the doctor (or hospital) for an emergency. But in general, yes.

    • Hey, some people fall for Nigerian princes, some fall for lottery scams, some fall for secret shopper offers, and some prefer “alternative healthcare.” God bless America!

      • AutismDadd

        How’s your Nigerian Prince doing?

        • Mike Stevens

          You tell us. Isn’t he one of your new black BFFs?

          • AutismDadd

            Oh Mike is trying to make a funny. Try again

        • Gary


      • Health Fitness Cafe

        One alternative doctor has helped me more than all other allopathic doctors I’ve been to put together. All I’ve ever gotten from allopathic doctors is a prescription for a drug. They are great in emergencies only (and not always). As for lottery scams, my sister’s in-laws won $10 million in the New Jersey state lottery on a quick pick. How’s that for a scam? Sorry about your Nigerian prince.

        • I’m glad you seem to respond well to placebos! Anyway, the lottery scams I mean are the emails you get claiming you’ve already won millions, you just need to send money for processing fees and you’ll get BIG MONEY!!

  • Great link! Saved! Here’s another:

  • Bendys

    Forced vaccines..
    But there’s no conspiracy to reduce the population. Sure..

    • Do you have anything to link vaccines with depopulation, or is that just something you read on Stormfront?

      • Bendys

        Why Stormfront ?

        • To me. the whole depopulation theory sounds like one of those “GLOBALIST JEWS ARE TRYING TO WIPE OUT THE WHITE RACE, WAKE UP” conspiracies you’d find on a white supremacist forum. That, plus I’ve found an alarming number of openly-racist anti-vaxxers, so it’s an educated guess.

          • Bendys

            I’ve never seen any racist anti-vaxxers.
            Only people whose children’s lives were destroyed by vaccines.
            And trolls from the globalist category you mentioned pushing for more lives to be destroyed.

          • Check out lloyd Lisco and AutismDadd.

          • Bendys

            That 50 year old Farm Girl is looking great for her age. No cellulite on that bum which is pretty amazing.

          • Which one? That must be a confidence boost!

          • AutismDadd

            Screw you.

          • AutismDadd

            So? I only used N and did so because the full word which you seem to love displaying, is offensive. It was in context and it was a comment not a derogatory use of the term. Pull your head out of your anus and stop twisting the facts.

          • There’s a reason it’s offensive. I prefer to drag it out and show it for what it is instead of allowing you to squirm around and pretend it isn’t the ugly, hateful, racist word that it is. If you want to apologize for using it because of what it means and what it represents, I’ll be happy to drop your name and leave the vile Klan boy lloyd Lisco all alone.

          • AutismDadd

            Go away little boy. OOPS I said BOY, OMG what a racist comment!!!!

          • Not gonna happen. I’m out of work until I heal from these fall injuries, so I’ve got plenty of time for this.

          • AutismDadd

            Aren’t you going to claim I’m a racist for saying boy??

          • Wear it with pride, man. Racist is the last word the left has in their arsenal and as soon as that wears of they’re done! All their cards have worn too thin, boohoo 🙂

          • The shill card is pretty non-existent by this time with all the wear and tear.

            And yet….

          • Nope, that’d be silly.

          • AutismDadd

            That’s your thing boy

          • You’re gonna have to try harder if you wanna get my goat, kiddo 😉

          • AutismDadd

            I don’t want your goat, I wouldn’t want to break up your marriage.

          • Ooh, that was a nice one, actually.

          • AutismDadd

            Not baaaad eh?

          • Not baaaaad at all! >:-D

          • Mike Stevens

            He’s not a racist… Some of his best friends are black.
            Well, they would be, if he had any friends.

          • Al Mather

            Bingo… They actually buy into and promote almost EVERY conspirotard meme under the sun…they have just found a way to trace ALL the blame back to Jews.

      • Ron Roy

        Glad you asked Ken. Now this is one of many but we’ll start with this one:

        • This is a very old, very debunked conspiracy that has been popping up all over the world, and for some reason is only ever announced by Catholic groups.

          • Ron Roy

            This also happened in 1992 where women in Mexico Nicaragua and the Philippines were given a series of 5 Tetanus shots.laced with the same hormone ( hCG ). The World Health Organization denied any wrongdoing but when Human Life International showed them results from 5 different labs that said the same thing the WHO didn’t comment. ”and for some reason is only ever announced by Catholic groups.” Maybe they’re the only ones who care.

          • It was a hoax then and it’s a hoax now.


          • Ron Roy

            Snopes? That left leaning site that has lost all credibility. I’ll believe a group of Catholic Bishops who have no ax to grind in this matter. Snope’s rebuttal leave much to be desired.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Ron, until you can demonstrate that you can differentiate between a statistically good study and a poor one. I’m pretty sure you opinion on the credibility of websites isn’t important.

          • OK, impartial fact-checking site: Wrong if they disagree with you, by definition

            Religious group with no medical education making consistently fraudulent claims that they can’t back up: Right if they agree with you, by definition.

            You’ve immunized yourself against newn information! It’s super effective!

          • And Ron Roy’s ilk reckon vaccines are useless.

          • Ron Roy

            Idiot you think a multi billion dollar organization doesn’t have medical people working for them.

          • Doesn’t mean much if these medical people repeat the same hoax over and over again and can’t back it up.

          • Jonathan Graham

            All you have to do is believe what the Kenya Catholic Doctors Association said: They sent a test out to a lab in Kenya and it came back positive. However no place that could run that test correctly existed in Kenya. So the overarching argument is false.

          • Gary

            Lol. You know you’ve hit a sore-point when it takes a handful of shills to denigrate what you say, then up-tick each other. Haven’t seen that before. 🙂

            Like you say, I’d sooner trust my life with a Catholic Bishop (or group of ’em) with no axe to grind, than a husband and wife team of Commies “debunking” facts which are unhelpful to the spread of Communism.

          • Ron Roy

            No it wasn’t.

          • Yes, it was.

          • Ron Roy

            No it wasn’t. I can keep this up all day and night.

          • Yes, it was! So can I!

    • Global population stands at about 7.4 billion and rising. I’d say your conspiracy theory is not only loony toons, but a colossal failure.

  • celticreeler

    Western medicine has a P.R. problem–a very big P.R. problem. Is it any wonder that people are flocking to the essential oils and eschewing the more basic and better-understood modern remedies?

    This coercion and heavy-handedness is part of the reason that we will be poised for a massive die-off from something immunization-preventable, like smallpox (which we haven’t vaccinated for since the 70’s), or polio.

    No choice at all entertained for the parents…just force and coercion, insinuations of lack of fitness, and public shaming. The “caregivers” (the term of homogenization of many different levels of training–suitable for the rationing schemes to come) just don’t have any people skills.

    • The small pox vaccine killed more people than small pox itself in the early 20th century.

      • BigGaySteve

        The anthrax vaccine killed more people than have every gotten anthrax since it was invented.

        • Wow, didn’t know that, thanks.

        • Gary

          I heard a rumour its the major cause of Gulf War Syndrome, also.

          • BigGaySteve

            It certainly wouldn’t help matters but some of the people in the Gulf oil spill had symptoms similar. I think breathing in oil fumes played a part, but once you start mixing a witch’s brew of bad stuff its hard to pinpoint what is worse.

      • celticreeler

        Sorry, I simply do not believe that to be true.

        I am not for all immunizations, though. Definitely not. What I am FOR is patient choice and the freedom to choose which immunization to get. If a patient bears individual responsibility (instead of the “single payer” we’re headed for, or the insurance pool) for his decisions, then there’s no need for this silly form. And the “government parent” can just butt out.

        A great uncle I never knew died an agonizing death at age 12 from diphtheria; my mom’s cousin was crippled for life with polio. These diseases had real morbidity and mortality. Rather than responding to inappropriate force on the part of government with some knee-jerk repudiation of all immunizations, the pro-liberty crowd needs to put the decision back in the hands of parents and patients, in consultation with the doctor they’ve chosen. But doctors will soon be a thing of the past. I know this from a very personal perspective.

        • No offense intended but I couldn’t care less whether you believe me or not, I’ve done my homework and what I typed is true regardless of opinions and I am very sorry and quite sad to read that you think that the diptheria vaccine or the polio vaccine would have helped your family members. Your opinions are the direct result of relentless medical propaganda. IV vitamin C can cure any ailment that you fear so why aren’t the “health” authorities notifying the people about this but keep on touting and now forcing their toxic, dangerous, archaic “medicine” on innocent people? That’s not medicine, that’s “medical” government tyranny!

          Is it not, therefore, rather strange, Mr. President, that vaccination should be reported as so utterly harmless in the distant Philippines, where we can not easily get at the records, when we know it is so deadly in the nearby England and America, where the accessible records show that it causes, frequently, more deaths than smallpox, as I have already proved? For example: the great English Commission on Vaccination found that deaths from vaccination were sometimes as high as seventy deaths per million vaccinated. This is twice as high as the mortality from smallpox in the United States, which for five years, from 1901 to 1905, including our last great epidemic period of 1901 and 1902, averaged only thirty-four deaths per million population!

          The pro-liberty crowd isn’t telling you that you can’t get vaccinated rather it’s the medical tyranny crowd attempting to force the educated to take part in their archaic superstitions.

          • celticreeler

            As I tried to say, I’m for liberty, not coercion. Immunization-preventable illnesses can be pretty ugly, and fatal, though. I think people should be able to choose, and I just want to make sure I understand you: are you advocating for liberty, or not? If people want immunizations paid for from their own pockets, is that okay with you? (It’s messy, I know, since tax $$$ has paid for all the research.)

          • People can do whatever they want to BUT if they choose to vaccinate their children they should be kept home from publicly funded schools until they are no longer contagious, that is my opinion of the matter.

          • Except autism is the same rate in unvaccinated vs vaccinated kids so it’s obvious that vaccines don’t cause autism.


          • Somebody tell the Amish!

          • Pretty sure the Amish know about their own Clinic for Special Children.

          • shay simmons

            Since many Amish vaccinate, what do you want to tell them?

          • Nope, that’s not what toxins means.

            Avoiding coercing toxins is what California just did.

          • Hang on – why do you object to vaccines again?

          • They’re dangerous, toxic, ineffective and unproven so why wouldn’t I object to vaccines? I have the(seemingly rare) ability to think critically and make my own decisions.

          • So “Not because they go directly into the bloodstream” – because that’s the usual nonsense we get.

          • Well considering that’s not at all nonsense I am glad to hear that!

          • It would be senseless coming from you though with your recommendation of IV Vit C though.

          • Yeah, real science has that effect on the confused but luckily you can go do whatever you want!

          • Prove the science is fake.

      • Al Mather

        Citation please…. From some place other than one of your Flat Earth or neo nazi tripe sites.

        • I already included the statements.

          • Yes, but Al Mather asked for a citation.

          • Okay I’ll use the internet for you and Al:

            Objections to smallpox vaccination continued into the twentieth century. Dr. R. P. Garrow published an article in a January 1928 issue of the British Medical Journal showing that the fatality rate among the vaccinated cases of smallpox in England and Wales in 1923 and 1926 in
            those over 15 years of age was higher than among the unvaccinated. The article provoked a number of letters including one from

            Dr. L. A. Parry. He raised a number of questions:

            How is it that smallpox is five times as likely to be fatal in the vaccinated as in the unvaccinated?

            How is it that, as the percentage of people vaccinated has steadily fallen (from 85% in 1870 to about 40% in 1925), the number of people attacked with variola has declined pari passu and the case mortality has progressively lessened? The years of least vaccination have been the years of least smallpox and of least mortality.

            How is it that something like 80% of the cases admitted into the Metropolitan Asylum Board smallpox hospitals have been vaccinated whilst only 20% have not been vaccinated?

            How is it that in Germany, the best vaccinated country in the world, there are more deaths in proportion to the population than in England — for example, in 1919, 28 deaths in England, 707 in Germany; in 1920, 30 deaths in England, 354 in Germany. In Germany, in 1919 there were 5,012 cases of smallpox with 707 deaths; in England in 1925 there were 5,363 cases of smallpox with 6 deaths. What is the explanation?

            Is it possible to explain the lessened incidence and fatality of smallpox on the same grounds as the lessened incidence and fatality of other infectious fevers “” namely, as due to improved hygiene and administrative control?

            Dr. Parry finished his letter with:

            “These are just a few points in connection with the subject which are puzzling me, and to which I want answers. I am in doubt, and I want to know the truth. Will some of the experts help me?”

            **The “medical” system back then was as helpful as it is now but there have always been those like this good doctor who knew better and tried their best to help.

          • Al Mather

            None of that proves your original statement.

          • Gary

            Wow. Big Pharma must’ve really splashed out on the internet shills of late.

          • No testable falsifiable definition, paycheque or INTERNAL instruction documents?

            BSPG = FAD + GFY.


          • They’re losing vaccine sales in great numbers and they think their online trolls can reverse the trend… ain’t happenin’

          • Mike Stevens

            Pharma is losing vaccine sales?
            I thought you antivaxers all followed the playbook on this one, complaining pharma profits were soaring.
            Can you guys make up your minds?

          • You see we’re decentralized and independent but all of us realize that evil corporations are trying to poison us so no we don’t all use the same talking points as the paid pharma vaccine trolls… I thought you already knew this stuff though, Mike.

            Sure pharma companies are losing vaccine sales, why else would they bribe traitors like senator Pan to violate the rights of millions of people? He didn’t do it out of love, lol, well… he did, the love of money that is.. cha-ching! Why else would they create some new form they are trying to get uninformed parents to sign like the weasels they are? Are you saying that the pharmaceutical companies come up with more prepaid government tyrannical laws when everyone is lining up voluntarily? Are you using vaccine logic to come to that comclusion?

          • Mike Stevens

            Awwww…. Diddums.

          • Leslie

            They need the huge revenue potential from vaccines because they keep getting nailed for fraud & collusion. This website lists many of the legal actions against Big Pharma:

            Merck has been particularly egregious in this area:

            This is in addition to a huge lawsuit for Vioxx

            And, they are currently under investigation for fraud related to the mumps portion of the MMR.

            People need to boycott anything produced by Merck, including pet medications! Here’s a list of their products. If your doctor or veterinarian is prescribing one of these ask for a product from a different manufacturer:

            Won’t be the 1st time their products have been boycotted:

          • That’s not a citation.

    • Accountable

      Western Medicine has a greed problem. The idea of the “benevolent” pharmaceutical companies looking out for us is nonsense. Maybe the pharmaceutical companies aren’t directly paying doctors to increase immunizations. But the government is now changing payment structures to doctors with “Pay for Performance”, in which immunization levels are directly related to a doctor’s pay. Because they don’t want it to look like a conflict of interest, pharmaceutical companies are now going to Health Plans, who in turn give “bonuses” to doctors who reach immunization levels.

      According to a marketing piece by none other than WHO, they actually admit that “Vaccines: becoming an engine for the pharmaceutical industry”

      Threatening to withhold medical services to patients for failing to vaccinate is medical coercion and a form of racketeering, because these doctors are financially gaining from the amount of immunizations they give.

      • celticreeler

        I would never have withheld my services for someone who chose not to immunize. The dominant philosophy, that of “we’re from the NIH (you pick an acronym, as long as it’s a government one) and we know best,” which must be accepted or else, has culled the liberty-loving physicians from the ranks, I suspect.

        I wonder how many people on this thread have actually had their hands on a small child who is dying from an infectious disease, however. It does happen, though it has been very rare in the last century or two. When that sort of circumstance becomes more common (like my uncle, strangling to death from the bull-neck of diphtheria), everyone is going to rethink their ‘all-or-none’ philosophy. I maintain that because of the coercion and heavy-handed approach of institutional, western medicine, the populace is primed for a return of something that was horrible and devastating in the past. People just haven’t seen how bad some of these infections can be.

        Like I’ve been saying: stop smoking, get in shape, make a will; life expectancy is going DOWN.

          • celticreeler

            It’s my prediction. Medicine is a huge bubble, ready to pop. Nobody will be able to afford any of the “treatments” that have warded off the Grim Reaper for people living into their 70’s and beyond. So, my prediction is that we’re going back to nasty, brutish, and short. No more drug-coated stents. The gub’mint and the insurance pool are just going to be bankrupted.

          • Ahhh, so it is a wholly false statement that life expectancy is decreasing even as it increases. Good to know.

  • It is not Paranoia

    Why does it even matter if some children are vaccinated and some are not? Vaccinated kids don’t have to worry! They’re vaccinated for god’s sake!!

    • bev72

      Do some research and find out all the illnesses that are caused by the tremendous amount of vaccines given to children under 6 yrs of age. There is absolutely no way in hell that these chemicals could possibly be good for everyone anymore than so called legal drugs are good for everyone. Pharmaceutical companies put out the big scare tactics for their own greed and their stockholders greed. They should not be in the stock market in the first place. Making money off of keeping people sick is extremely sick!!!!

      • It is not Paranoia

        Cool…Internet image with someone’s opinons on it!

        What am I supposed to do with it?

        • No, dear.

          Those aren’t opinions. Those are facts.

          • It is not Paranoia

            Of course they are!

            Honey 😉

          • “Research” it then.

          • It is not Paranoia

            You post like crazy and it’s all pro-vaccines stuff.

            I wonder where that comes from 🙂

            I smell shit. But I’m not gonna argue, have a nice day.

          • Protip: “like crazy” is not likely to be an insult when someone’s chosen SN for another site is “Perfectlycrazydragon.”

            “You post like crazy and it’s all pro-vaccines stuff.” Yup. This is a personal vendetta which you would know if you had checked my public profile.

            But, let’s compare, shall we?

            You have 468 posts since Jul 23 2015 and it’s mostly conspiracy nonsense.

            So that’s over not-quite a year. That averages out to 42 (bit more because I truncated rather than rounded) comments a month, 10 (truncation again) a week and 1 a a day.

            I post more than you because the last time I did calculations (I’ve been here for ~3 years), I posted about ~8 comments a day.

            Have you met AutismDad though? He averages 24 comments a day so…I wonder … do you think anyone’s paying him?

            “I wonder where that comes from :)” Wonder no more. It’s admitted right on my public profile.

            I smell shit. But I’m not gonna argue, have a nice day.”

            Oh, and of course you smell shit. That’s what happens when you rip out the plumbing because nobody gets cholera any more. We did try to warn you.

          • It is not Paranoia

            So, what is your point? I’m not even interested in talking to you, man 🙂 Can we just…part ways? I’d appreciate that. No hard feelings.

          • Do you think ADAD must be getting paid to comment since he posts more than me?

            “Hmmm….could you please stop being angry at anti-vaxxers for insisting that they prefer 400 dead children alone to you while they also increase the probability of CRS thus increasing the likelihood of you?” Hmmm….let me think about that one. Nope.

          • Al Mather

            She’s a fruit fly… you’ll get no intelligent exchange of any kind.

        • You asked a question and I answered it with a list of factual statements. As for what are you supposed to do with it, I’d suggest verifying each fact on the list using reputable scientific sites. Then, adjust your mindset and opinions accordingly.

        • Sonja Henie

          “Research” it. See if what was posted is true.

          • It is not Paranoia

            Well…I did and I came to conclusion that it’s not true.
            It’s also written in a very offensive and bitter way…and for me, ridicule is the basic tool to cover up bullshit.

            So my mind is made up for now.

          • Why do you find answering someone’s questions to be ridicule?

            What evidence did you find that makes you think it’s not true?

          • Gary

            Big Pharma must be really worried people are rejecting their “medicines” of late, as they’ve really splashed out in hiring a bunch of shills to troll and up-tick each other.

            Lol. Kinda funny to read through, its so obvious.

            People honestly believing something will respond with a rational argument. Shills generally will just screech about “the children dead from measles” or something, and get hysterical. 🙂

          • It is not Paranoia

            As you said, it’s not hard to see what their deal is. Nobody sits behind their computer writing pro-vaccine stuff all day as a hobby.

            At least al mather have some friends now 🙂

          • Simple. We don’t sit here all day.

  • gotta love this:
    “Not only that, but if someone happens to come down with a vaccine
    preventable disease around the child, would the parent be able to be
    held personally liable for damages? That parent would have signed a
    piece of paper essentially saying so without any further proof required.”

    We all know that such a thing could never happen because parents who do not want their child vaccinated also know that caring for their children properly and giving them only “natural food” will keep them healthy and so their child will never get sick. Will never get measles or mumps or any other such mythical illnesses, and thus could not make any other children ill.

    Really, I do not see what the problem is. Unless of course, you are in favor of people not taking responsibility for their actions, and are admitting that, just possibly,. an unvaccinated child could get sick, and infect others, and maybe die. But that is just not possible right?

    • Just like it’s “not possible” for vaccinated children to spread the very same disease they were just vaccinated with to other children. Why aren’t recently vaccinated, disease-shedding children withheld from attending public school until they are no longer contagious? Where is the government form that the vaccinated childrens’ parents must sign to inform them that their archaic, superstitious beliefs may infect other children and they are willingly compromising the safety of other children by exercising those beliefs in a publicly funded school?

      By the way, all recent outbreaks have been among the vaccinated!

      You don’t see what the problem is? Pull your head of the dirt and take another look.

      • 1. It’s certainly possible for a vaccinated person to spread a disease if they don’t develop an immunity. Vaccines are not 100.00% perfect. No medicine is.

        2. Vaccines don’t shed. That’s a myth.

        3. You apparently didn’t read the ABC article, or your entire point depends on the nirvana fallacy.

        4. “All recent outbreaks have been among the vaccinated” is a lie, and unvaccinated people are vastly overrepresented in outbreaks. They import disease, they spread disease, and they catch diseases at far, far greater rates.

        • 1. Then stop forcing them on school children

          2. Yes they do.

          3. That article was just something quick I grabbed to illustrate a point… that point is that vaccines are dangerous and often don’t even work and the mumps outbreak at Princeton was among the vaccinated!!! They then say “oh, it’s only 86% effective” but that means that the 14% it doesn’t work on were all concentrated at Princeton univeristy… talk about a nirvana fallacy, lol

          4. No it’s not, vaccinated people are shedding the diseases they are vaccinated against and infecting the non-vaccinated. Non-vaccinated people don’t get sick like vaccinated people do. I watch my vaccinated co-workers yach away year after year after they get their flu shots yet I don’t even need to up my sanitation because I am healthy and won’t get sick from any of that weak immune system crap.

          You guys can vaccinate till you drop dead just keep your superstitions to yourselves and there won’t be any problems.

          • What’s next, gonna pull out You don’t even understand what the nirvana fallacy is, so it’s a good thing ignorant dupes like you don’t write public health policy.

          • What’s next, you gonna pull out LOLOL!

            This may help your ignorance – The nirvana fallacy is a name given to the informal fallacy of comparing
            actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives. It can also
            refer to the tendency to assume that there is a perfect solution to a
            particular problem(VACCINES). A closely related concept is the perfect solution

            It’s a very bad thing that intentionally ignorant, money grubbing parasites like you now write public health policies like in the people’s republic of Kalifornia. So many young lives are about to be ruined because of widely publicized quackery and superstition.

          • Yes, anti-vaxxers claim that unless vaccines are 100.00% effective in every single case and nobody ever has the slightest negative reaction, ever, they are deadly evil poison that will kill you. Conversely, pro-vaxxers have never claimed that vaccines are 100.00% effective with 0.000 negative reactions, ever. We compare real against real, not exaggeration against imagination.

          • We’re not the ones telling you to believe in our fantasies and trying to enforce them via law though, are we?

          • I used to be on your side. I thought it was more important to protect parents’ right to choose and evaluate for themselves than to mandate vaccinations that I was sure only a tiny minority would reject, not enough to threaten herd immunity.

            Then I heard what anti-vaxxers have to say. I found out that they reject science entirely, they are convinced by scammers, they buy every conspiracy theory they hear, many of them are white supremacists, and so on.

            Basically, anti-vaxxers have shown me that they don’t have the intellect, integrity, or character that are crucial when deciding whether vaccination is necessary. If you are unable to make that decision and the wrong choice creates a threat to public health, then the sad fact is that people smarter and more honest than you will have to make that decision for you. People like you make my original position incompatible with the preservation of life.

          • Herd immunity is a natural phenomenon and trying to state that synthetic products can produce the same effect is garbage propaganda from the corrupt pharmaceutical industry.

            As the evil communists try to take complete control over our country we see their terrible deeds out in the open like bribing corrupt senators like senator Pan of the people’s republic of Kalifornia into forcing children to get poisoned by toxic substances produced by private, profit making entities in order to attend publicly funded schools which is corruption on parade.

            Anybody wishing to force their opinions on others I view as the scum of the earth. Many are waking up and time is running out for said scum though, thankfully.

          • Seralini already did! LOLOL!

          • Seralini paper is #1?

            Replication matters so who’s #2?

          • That would be the lawsuit that re-evaluated his claims!!!

          • Um, no.

            Courts don’t decide science. They decide laws.

            Who replicated Seralini’s study?

          • Seralini vindicated: new Roundup study shows liver and kidney damage at very low doses

          • Sigh. That is an article.

            Please link to the study that replicated Seralini’s work so we can all see the quotes in situ.

          • I don’t have time to read the paper right now, but it appears to be in Environmental Health, a journal with an impact factor of around 2.7. *sigh*

          • Oh good lord, they’ll be citing the EPA next.

            Apparently, these plonkers drink flu shots….every day….by the gallon. No wonder it overwhelms immune systems if that’s how they’re using it.

          • Seralini’s paper was garbage. If someone was even able to come to the same conclusions (hint: they haven’t), I would hardly credit Seralini with much.

            Btw, I’d expect to see such a paper in a top-tier journal, not J. Wal-Mart.

          • Gary

            Prove its not an abomination against God’s creation.

          • “Thou shalt love your neighbour as thyself.”

          • Gary

            If one loved one’s neighbour, one wouldn’t be interfering with God’s creation in unnatural ways.

          • Willing to accept an an all-natural 20% childhood mortality rate?

          • Sure.

            As soon as you can prove God exists, we can discuss that.

          • Gary

            If we can’t agree to the base rules, which it would appear we can’t, it will always your word against ours, your $cience against science.

            You believe in evolution, I believe in God. You believe vaccines can poison you to good health, I believe it has and is reducing your intelligence and health. Time will tell, until the point you try pushing your poisons on us by force, then the war will escalate. ‘Til then, enjoy living in fantasy-world, shill. Better keep up those vaccines, to make up for the ones we won’t be taking. 🙂

          • Right, people like you are why I stopped viewing vaccine objectors as rational adults capable of making sound decisions.

          • and people like you confirm that opinions are still paid for on the internet, lol!

          • Hey there.

            Do you have evidence that anyone here is getting paid?

            Evidence for this assertion would be a paycheque, internal instruction documents or else, a testable falsifiable definition that runs both ways.

            I am looking for evidence that someone HERE is getting paid and not merely assertions that they exist in general.

          • When a bunch of vaccine shills all show up at once….
            it’s just a (((coincidence)))

          • That is stating the conclusion as a premise – it is neither a paycheque nor an internal instruction document and indeed, it isn’t a testable falsifable definition that runs both ways.

            Until you can come up with one of those….guess what? BPSG = GFY + FAD.

          • Too bad people are running for the hills from hour frakencrap you’re trying to force inject into people. That’s both unhinged and psychotic dontcha know?

            I lose one shill and pick up many more…. anudda (((coincidence)))! I’m gonna start playin’ the lottery! 🙂

          • Again, stating the conclusion as a premise.

            That is neither a paycheque nor an internal instruction document and indeed, it isn’t a testable falsifiable definition that runs both ways.

            Until you can come up with one of those….guess what? BPSG = GFY + FAD.

          • I enjoy Oopit’s posts, so I follow him and quite a few others to find fun discussions in which to smack down scammers, liars, racists, and conspiracy loons. I suspect that a bunch of us have formed an ad hoc cluster of like-minded anti-disease commenters. I guess that means we’re a shill club? 😀

          • *her

          • Oh, pardon me! Thanks for the correction.

          • Gary

            All conveniently saying the very same things as trolls who are paid by Big Pharma would? Coincidence theorist, perhaps? Yours is a dying religion. 🙂

          • Why are we arguing with people who are conveniently saying the same things as trolls who are paid by Big Alt-med? 🙂

          • Gary

            Lol. Big Alt-med? Lol.

            For your information, even if “Big Alt-med” [lol] were a real entity, Alternative Medicine is not a government protected racket. Anyone can jump in on the bandwagon and join in on the profits, if there are/were any. Even Big-Pharma Corporations. 🙂

          • How many dozens of billions of dollars does it take? Also, it is government protected in that it is excused from any requirement to actually demonstrate safety or effectiveness, unlike actual medicine.

          • Gary

            If there’s easy money to be made, I’m sure Big Pharma would be in on the game. ‘Cept they prefer to make their money in government protected markets, as they couldn’t survive in a true, free market.

            Sure, they could use their vast funds to demonstrate that Alternative Medicine is largely safe and effective, but it wouldn’t give them a monopoly on selling the products, which is the only way these useless organisations can survive. If you want to call that actual medicine, be my guest. Time will tell which group’s adherents live longer, healthier (and cheaper!) 🙂

          • Ezekiel Stephan didn’t get to live very long.

          • Hey, Gary.

            Do you have that testable falsifiable definition that runs both ways yet? Perhaps you and Ron Roy could work on it together.

          • shay simmons

            And when a bunch of anti-vaxxers all slow up at once , isn’t that a coincidence too?

          • Not really because that would be the vaccinated slowing up… aluminum is neurotoxic.

          • You have failed to a)tell us at what does alu is neurotoxic and b)at what dose it is in vaccines and c)make a distinction between compounds and elements.

            You’re either clueless or deliberately trying to scare us. Either way, not taking medical advice from you.

          • I’m clueless in stating that aluminum is neurotoxic? Lay off the vaccines, they’re clearly obfuscating your critical thinking skills. Aluminum is toxic at any dosage, especially when it is INJECTED directly into the bloodstream, geez, the fact that I need to type something like that proves how far we have fallen into bottomless corruption.

            Either way, not taking medical advice from you.

            Don’t then, why would I care? I am a “to each their own” kind of person not some nut-bag communist that wants to force my beliefs onto to others at gunpoint(sound familiar?). Before this year I enjoyed over 2 decades of perfect health with not even a cold. I made two mistakes this year(one wasn’t even my fault) and I have been sick twice so far because of those mistakes but they have since been rectified and I have nothing to worry about going forward. Flu season is a joke to me, I don’t even have to wash my hands or cover my face when someone coughs because “there might be bugs in some of you mugs but there ain’t no bugs in me,” lol, it’s a stimulated immune system thing 🙂

          • Go back and read my actual post and respond to it.

            No tea for you.

          • “To each their own.” Yeh….that’s the problem. You’re really not.

            “Simulated immune system.” lol. That’s what vaccines do.

          • I’m not all about “to each their own”? Wow, if you don’t know who Alinsky is you really should as you’re employing his techniques right now.

            May I remind you that you are part of the “let’s force our unproven, toxic vaccines on public school children and eventually adults” crowd who now has to try to use laws to make sales because nobody wants their deadly products anymore while I am part of the crowd who says “let people raise themselves and their own children how they see fit regardless of what the medical mafia and its henchmen think about it”. You really do read like a confused person….

            *sigh* and Antibody Response To Vaccines Does Not Equal Immunity or protection

          • Of course not. Know what amnestic response is?

            Yes, you’re not about that. Diseases are contagious, you flipping plonker.

          • Sonja, you’re not supposed to upvote me, I’m anti-vaccine… just lookin’ out 😉

          • Sonja Henie

            You’re right. That was a mistake. I withdrew it.

          • You’re welcome 🙂

          • Props for honesty.

          • An intramuscular injection is a technique used to deliver a medication deep into the muscles. This allows the medication to be absorbed into the bloodstream quickly

            *I’ve given more IM injections than most 1st year residents, lol

            PS: Your shill is showing, please cover it up, there may be children around here! 🙂

          • Mike Stevens

            The prevalent antivax meme is that adjuvant in vaccines hangs about in the muscle for weeks, causing local reactions.
            Can you antivaxers make up your minds please?

          • Sure: vaccines are dangerous, private products from corporations who are guilty of felony crimes making them literally the product of criminals… better?

          • Mike Stevens

            Yup, much better. I enjoy reading antivax fiction.

          • Herbert West

            I enjoy reading your science fiction, even better. You’re about as credible as Dr. Smith on the old Lost in Space series…

          • Mike Stevens

            Warning! Will Robinson!

          • Herbert West

            you get a star for that.

          • What a coinkydink! Vaccine troll lies and refutation of logic are amusing to ME!

            Oh, and BTW, aluminum is neurotoxic… go look it up, it’s true!

          • Mike Stevens

            Oxygen is toxic. Go look it up, it’s true!

          • Here’s a hint then: DON’T INJECT OXYGEN!

          • Mike Stevens

            But oxygen is toxic by inhalation!

            Do us a favour and avoid doing that for 10 minutes, will you?

          • But aluminum is toxic by injection! Aluminum still got your brain?

          • Mike Stevens

            Glad you concur that anything and everything can be toxic, if the dose is sufficiently high.
            That was my point.

          • shay simmons

            Congratulations on a near perfect non sequitur.

          • I see the aluminum is strong in you 😉

          • shay simmons

            Says the poster of sentences that indicate English is not his/her primary language.

          • I’m not a poster of sentences, they sell those over at Spencer’s gifts and I think you may need another vaccine shot… ya know, for your health and all 😉

          • shay simmons

            Inability to parse an English sentence (again) is noted. You might want to reread your last three unintelligible posts and then take advantage of the Disqus edit function.

          • I’m sorry you can’t comprehend anything but how is that my fault? Should we lower test score requirements for you also? Maybe create a new victim group for you? Give you your own twitter hashtag? LOL! Hey, maybe you guys could try sit-ins against groups of people that don’t agree with you like the gun-grabbing communists 😉

          • shay simmons

            I suppose I shouldn’t hold your illiteracy and lack of critical thinking skills against you. against you. It’s so common among the anti-science crowd.

          • Gary

            Lol. Its so obvious. And yet they want us to show them their paychecks, cross-linked to their troll-accounts?

          • That is why I included the option of a testable falsifiable definition that runs both ways.

            So….do you have one?

          • They must deny, deny, deny and act like they’re just really concerned people who coincidentally wish to rabidly defend pharmaceutical profit interests.

          • Mike Stevens

            No, there is this little thing on disqus where you can “follow” other posters, and then get “notifications” when they post comments. Of course, should it be a topic you are interested in, you can join in.
            If you click on an avatar of another poster you can see the option to follow them.
            You clearly know this, because you have “followed” 48 other people.

            Interestingly, nobody has deemed your comments interesting enough to return the favour.

          • I’m sorry you and your troll army are too stupid to understand disqus stats and the disqus website even though you’re paid to use every single day it to troll others… that’s major shill fail, brah!

          • Gary

            Lol. Probably a new recruit. These vaccine companies are too tight to pay for brains, so try and make up for the lack of IQ in shill numbers.

          • yep, sure seems so

          • Ah, the shill gambit. I accept your surrender.

          • Gary

            Lol. “[…] many of them are white supremacists, and so on.”… Ooooh, the horror.

            Surprised you didn’t include a reference in there to Nazis, or a holocaust, or terrorists, but I’m sure you came close. 🙂

          • Haven’t seen that yet, just folks like lloyd Lisco.

          • Anyone against vaccines is now a racist nazi 🙂

          • Yes, you are. The laws of biology.

          • lol, you seriously just typed that as a valid retort?

          • Yep.

            I’m not the one that believes in a grand global conspiracy to prove me wrong even though some of the co-conspirators have never met me and some were born, lived, worked, made their contribution and died long before I was conceived.

            The diseases don’t care what your feelpinions are. They will operate according to the laws of biology, nevertheless.

          • You’re right about diseases not caring about your feelz, in fact, they don’t even care about your prepaid $cience either… bastards!

            The secret to great health is great food and clean water which is getting harder and harder to come by these days…all by design of course, that’s why I am acquiring some nice property out of the way where I can grow my own healthy, organic, non-gmo food 🙂

          • Prove it.

          • Socrates stated that over a millennia ago, lol

          • So you can’t do what you’re being told to do even though you were told you should do that over 1000 years ago?

            And you’re supposed to be smarter than all the immunlogists, chemists, biologists, e.t.c…. I don’t think so…. somehow.

          • Al Mather

            There’s no fantasy conspiracy he does not ascribe to … He’s a devout flat earther neo nazi… Space does not exist ,satellites are a hoax,the sun is a few thousand miles up,ANtarctica is actually the edge of the world that encircles us…. Jews are behind it all

          • I don’t care about flat earther’s or space or satellites or the sun or Antarctica nonsense. The flat earth bit at least does no real physical harm.

          • Al Mather

            Perhaps not …. but it provides context for the rest.

          • Al Mather

            Dude your conspirotard brain can not discern between reality and fantasy… you seek fantasy.. you are drawn to fantasy… you exist for fantasy.. you’re a legend in your own mind…

            Flat Earth, Eugenic plots, Magical secret mountains at the north pole , Ice walls that encircle us, sun is only 3000 miles away and 30 miles wide,Cannabis Cancer cures, Sandy Hook, 9/11, Orlando, Hitler was a Zionist. Obama is a Jew, Chemtrails,germ theory denial ……….Jews!Jews!JEWS!…..

            Please,….. tell everyone the REALITY of vaccines…we wouldn’t want to get caught up in fantasies.

          • Can you show a pro-vaxxer claiming vaccines are perfect?

          • Stealing credit from plumbers again, are we? Virtuous!

          • All you have to do is show me an incidence-of-VPD-declining-before-the-relevant-vaccine chart.

            Note: Incidence, not death.

      • “Just like it’s “not possible” for vaccinated children to spread the very
        same disease they were just vaccinated with to other children”

        It is also possible that you have a triple digit IQ. But as in the above case, no evidence that vaccinated children have ever infected others is presented, even though anybody with a triple digit IQ could easily find such.

        But as the studies indicate, such events are rare. Much more rare than infected individuals transmitting their diseases to other unvaccinated individuals.

        Now here is a news flash. the world is not perfect. People make errors. Especially stupid / careless people. So you get things like this:

        Using such stories to justify not using vaccines does not indicate a double digit IQ, but one at room temp. Kinda like saying that because there have been occasional problems with air bags deploying in an improper manner and injuring or killing people, than we should stop installing them in cars.

        Now I should say, that I agree with you. People should be able to get a discount and have an airbag free car. This world needs fewer stupid people. And people should be able do not vaccinate their children. Again, we need fewer stupid people.

        But people should be held responsible for the consequences of their decisions when all available evidence indicates that the decision was the most likely to produce an adverse outcome.

        In the article cited above is this paragraph.

        The number of measles deaths declined from 7575 in 1920 (10,000 per year in many years in the 1910s) to an average of 432 each year from 1958-1962.18 The vaccine was introduced in 1963. Between 2005 and 2014, there have been no deaths from measles in the U.S. and 108 deaths from the MMR vaccine.19

        I think that even someone with your limited IQ will be able to see that zero is less than 432. And while 108 deaths over a 10 year period is NOT zero, it is a lot less than hundreds of thousands of deaths that happened before the vaccines were in wide spread use.

        But you probably use a calculator to work with any numbers greater than 10, so this may not be obvious to you

      • Yes, I do see the problem.

        You are committing the false balance fallacy.